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30 January 2017, 8:00 pmAsk Question

▲ZEIT's mission is to make Cloud computing as easy and accessible as Mobile computing. Their first product now makes deploying a Node.js project to the cloud as easy as a single command.

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  • Node.js deployment
  • Scaling

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Stephan de Vries's photo

First of all, I'd like to thank you for creating now, hyper, micro and all other amazing services/ products and for hosting this AMA. My questions are:

  1. Since now deployments are stateless, what service do you recommend for database hosting?

  2. The "Pro" pricing plan of now looks great, but can be a bit expensive for some. Do you have plans (pun intended) to create a cheaper, 'lite' plan that offers private projects and custom domains while cutting down on other features?

Show +1 replies
Stephan de Vries's photo

Full stack developer, enthusiastic about new technologies.

Thanks for answering!

Stephan de Vries's photo

Full stack developer, enthusiastic about new technologies.

Just to note: I don't think now is too expensive at all. John Lindquist is completely right when he says that now offers too much for its value. I suppose I was asking for a plan based on the open source plan where the only difference is to be able to use custom domains.

Justine's photo

Why did you decide to make ZEIT/now? Is it because you were frustrated with the existing Node.js deployment solutions?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Many reasons. On one hand, I believe that the fundamental action of "launching" an application has to be as frictionless on the Cloud as it is on Mobile or Desktop. That's the mission of the company.

When developing products or APIs, I was really frustrated with how long everything took. Managing packages, containers, registries, images, certificates, DNS records, scaling groups, load balancers. There had to be a more adequate abstraction.

We realized that if we set up the boundaries of the HTTP protocol as our constraint, we could dramatically simplify a huge part of the paradigm. If you could imagine the Cloud as one big computer, Now is the CPU. The hard drive can be S3 and the memory Firebase, for example, for many applications.

We also identified a unique opportunity to speed up the build process. We recognized that over time even simple JavaScript applications had quite an involved process for downloading dependencies and compiling your project.

We want to move that build step to the cloud so that you get reproducible deployments very quickly.

Juha Lindstedt's photo

What do you think is the next big thing after React? Web standards and web components?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

In my article "Pure UI" I mentioned that a really interesting thing about React is that for the most part it shifted the discussion away from frameworks and features and towards programming models and how we reason about and scale our projects.

This set up the trajectory of the community in a very healthy path. With React came the discussion about Flux and state stores. With all the research around Flux came Redux. Simultaneously we have members from the React community rethinking how we design our APIs and backends with GraphQL.

And this brings me to the answer to your question. React was a revolutionary way of thinking. The Web Platform, and standards in general, are evolutionary.

As such, I expect the "next big thing" to almost never come from a platform burdened with browser compatibility issues, RFCs, GitHub issue drama, artificially encumbered mobile browser competition, etc. I expect it to come from a private company faced with lots of interesting and novel problems and very strong user demands and economical pressures.

But that also provides balance! The moments I've been the most productive in my life is when I master a tool or conceptual framework and I create new things with that tool over and over and over again.

This is why with ZEIT we created Next.js (https://github.com/zeit/next.js). We think the React programming model combined with some of the strengths of what the "PHP way" had given us will give us a very strong productivity (and therefore economical) advantage for years to come.

sliceofcode's photo

Are you guys considering adding benefits for students via the GitHub Student Developer Pack?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Absolutely. This is a request we get quite a bit and I also touched on briefly when answering Stephan de Vries's question.

One of our missions is to make student, research, OSS, non-profit accounts completely accessible. We think the Cloud can do a lot to further those use cases.

You can definitely expect to hear news about this in 2017.

John Lindquist's photo

How did you calculate your pricing model? You appear to provide way too much value for what you charge, so I worry that you're not making enough to stay in business...

Guillermo Rauch's photo

I answered this on the top question by Stephan de Vries. The bottom line is that we need to remain very aware of usage patterns, and adapt our technology accordingly. This is why the plans we offer already include some bandwidth limits that we think typically correlate with higher usage.

In the brief period that we've been online we've learned a tremendous amount already about the different types of users we have. We look forward in the coming months to providing plans that fit each use case very well "out of the box", in combination with a realtime pay-as-you-go model whenever you go over the limits or stipulations that you had.

This gives us the ability to account for "one-off events" for individuals (like John Lindquist's website is featured on Reddit and Hacker News for 1 day), and at the same time accommodate for the large traffic demands of bigger organizations.

Andrew Van Slaars's photo

First off, everything you've put out so far is amazing so thank you for that!

  1. Micro is great, but it feels like it could benefit from some kind of system for managing a collection of services. For instance, if I made changes to multiple services used by my front-end, deploying to now would give me new URLs for each and I would then have to go update my front-end references to these services. Is there a recommended tool/workflow for handling this or is there something in the works?
  2. The only thing "missing" from the Zeit ecosystem for deployment is a data solution. Are there any plans for some kind of hosted data persistence solution
Guillermo Rauch's photo

1) We already put out https://github.com/zeit/micro-cluster as an interim solution. Thanks to Dockerfile, you can also deploy and scale services like Nginx to front your microservices. We definitely want to and will make this process easier

2) We don't think there's such a thing as a "general data solution", only offerings with different tradeoffs in latency, power, replication capabilities, etc. Our intention is to make the process of setting them up and understanding their capabilities and tradeoffs extremely smooth.

Jochen Schmidt's photo

Will you provide an integrated solution for persistent storage for databases, to e.g make deploying simple MongoDB instances without the need for external services?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We think the problem of dynamically scaling and distributing stateless HTTP/2 services is extremely interesting and has originated a number of very novel solutions on our end.

There's a lot to do in this space yet and that's why we've been focusing strongly on that.

Nathaniel Maman's photo
  1. How do you decide what to do next?
  2. Some words about your UX/DX process?
  3. What help you to keep focus?
  4. Can you give some details about 'now' backend (arch, design, etc..) ?
Guillermo Rauch's photo

1) We have a roadmap in our minds that covers a big spectrum of use-cases and possibilities for the future. At the same time, we're constantly listening to our customers and addressing their most pressing needs.

One "trick" that I use is that I tend to give priority to limitations that constitute "dead-ends" to our customers.

For example, imagine that Now didn't support Dockerfile deployments. The one day that you need to build Node.js from source with a forked version of V8 to address some pressing business need, you and your team would be completely blocked.

Therefore, since there was no "escape hatch", that takes priority over everything else.

2) A lot of it I covered in my essay Pure UI. I try to think as much as possible as a designer and then work my way backwards to the technology.

3) I'm completely in love with what we do and our mission, and every single day we hear words of gratitude and support from our customers. That keeps us going strong.

4) This would be best reserved to an AMA of its own. We use a very wide range of programming languages, open source and proprietary technologies.

John Lindquist's photo

What should I avoid hosting on "now"? Docker opens up so many possibilities, but I know persistent storage is not provided.

Guillermo Rauch's photo

You can host everything! As I said to Stephan de Vries, you get the freedom to pick the best persistent storage solution for each problem.

In the future we look forward to simplifying the process of incorporating those solutions. To this end we launched our "secrets" support, and you can expect some interesting features there for making their provisioning much easier :)

Imam Susanto's photo

Why the logo is upwards triangle?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Simultaneously aiming at the cloud and the skies, and the mathematical symbol of "delta", which points to some of our interesting features:

  • Immutability. Each deployment is simply the delta of your previous one. You can go back and see the evolution of your cloud over time
  • Realtime. We show you the logs right away, we do everything possible to start up your process(es) right away, we even give you a working URL within 900ms on average!
Federico Miras's photo

I would like to thank you for all the projects you have initiated, i insanely love now, next, hyper and serve too! I was wondering, you contribute to OSS a lot, and that's excellent! but, how do you get money incomes? only through now plans? do you plan to launch any other software for profit? thanks and regards!

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We are first and foremost a cloud hosting company, and that's our source of revenue.

All our OSS work is about sharing our favorite internal tools, and we do it because we think Googling our own documentation is better than GitHub search :P Among many other reasons, of course!

Sergio Daniel Xalambrí's photo

Have you thought about releasing a GraphQL version of your API?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Definitely. We are currently working hard on improving the API documentation and featuring some really awesome use-cases from our customers.

I would say the simplicity and power of our API is one of my favorite things about Now

Sebastian Werner's photo

I'd like to understand how your company works financially. You do a lot of great things and I wonder how you actually pay your bills. Can you share some details on how you structure your time and the time of your employees?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

The default behavior of Now is that your code is open-source unless you upgrade. This provides a very big incentive for teams and companies to move onto the next tiers.

In addition, many of our largest customers have very specific feature requests, such as machine isolation (single-tenancy), certifications, logs replication, 24/7 support, realtime insight into metrics and auto-scaling events, and much more.

Vincent Voyer's photo

As a team, how do you balance OSS developments like hyper or next.js and your main product needs?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

This is a great question. I want to make our OSS development sustainable, responsible and predictable. I wrote our "policy" on the subject as a result: https://zeit.co/blog/oss

Some of the most important principles are:

  • It has to have demonstrated its value within the company. The project should almost be in a "desperate need" to be open source. This happened to us with Next.js, for example. We were building quite a bit of internal documentation. I wanted to set that free. I find myself learning from the community now! We've had a lot of great help, insight and ideas via GitHub issues and the likes
  • The software we open source has to have a small and limited yet extensible surface. A trick for accomplishing this is focusing on components (like Next.js) or plugins (like Hyper). This takes away a lot of the burden from maintainers, and also at the same time puts the community "in charge". It's a great balance. Moving forward, I'm skeptical of projects that don't meet this criteria and likely won't open source any, unless they're small components and such.
Mirza Joldic's photo

I'm excited about the latest blog post about using now.json to customize the deployment. Can you talk more about future plans for now.json and how many knobs you guys plan to expose to us? For example, I'm particularly interested in controlling how now scales my deployment. Thanks.

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We are equally excited about it! One of our goals in the short term is to make sure now.json gives you access to tailor every single aspect of deployment, scaling, visibility. Expect a lot of news on this front

A.Rose's photo

Zeit and the Zeit team is amazing! It seems some of you have children/ families? How do you all balance your family life and work life? Thank you.

Guillermo Rauch's photo

This question is actually planted by my wife Alyssa 😏. I love you and ▲ZEIT would not be where it is without your support 💖

Juha Lindstedt's photo

You seem to have people working from all around the globe. Do you have physical office(s) or do all work from home? How has it worked out?

Naoyuki Kanezawa's photo

We all work from home which is awesome you don't have to have a crowded commuter train in Japan, where I live :D What the most wonderful thing I think is you can work with great people all around the world without geographical restrictions.

Juha Lindstedt's photo

Creator of RE:DOM and Liike, web architect

That is awesome! 👍

Uhsac's photo

Can you provide more information about how you scale? If I have a micro service that need a lot of CPU but don't get a lot of traffic, will you scale according to CPU or traffic ?

I would also love to know what you are doing for service discovery?

And thanks for your work!

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Our algorithms consider CPU, RAM, traffic and historical data in order to make the decision.

Later this year you'll start getting notifications about this on your activity feeds and desktop apps, in addition to some exciting customization opportunities.

Vince Speelman's photo

which CSS-in-JS solution do you each prefer? I know next.js comes with you own styled-jsx, but do you have thoughts on glamour and styled-components?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

From the get-go, I wanted Next.js to resemble "vanilla CSS" as much as possible. It took me a while to come up with the exact implementation (styled-jsx), and in the meantime I personally liked Glamor best.

So what we settled on is to embrace all CSS-in-JS systems. I think if I were to pick one from scratch today I'd use Glamor or Styled Components. Styletron has features of both and I like it as well.

At the same time, I think inline styles are also super powerful (in their simplicity!) and work amazing well for most use cases.

As a final note: CSS is actually a very nice syntax. I find that I'm really productive writing CSS! It's nice when the selectors don't leak and you can use it within component boundaries.

Vince Speelman's photo

Front End Engineer @ TED

Thanks!

Juha Lindstedt's photo

Considering you have such an international team of GREAT people, what do you think of Trump increasingly closing borders of America? How do you feel Trump's politics affect digital business?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

In a way, the very thing that brings down the ▲ZEIT team together is the Cloud.

We're all from different countries, cultures, religions and only one of our members has English as their first language.

The reason for this is that the Cloud, which is what connects us, outpaces Land. Land has a very high translation cost for us: everything from airport security (and subsonic aircraft :P) or traffic jams, to not having the desire to walk away from our growing children or aging relatives every single day.

The company itself is incorporated in Delaware and the main office based in San Francisco. I'm extremely grateful for this country which has welcomed me as an immigrant and connected me with all the wonderful people that have made ▲ZEIT possible.

I'm convinced that the whims of a particular leader or epoch won't prevent us all from connecting and fulfilling our dreams, both on Cloud and Land. I want our leaders to re-consider their views on immigration, but I also urge you to not let any given politician halt your dreams. If the land is blocked, take your dreams higher, in the meantime.

Juha Lindstedt's photo

Creator of RE:DOM and Liike, web architect

Great answer! 👏

Vladimir Starkov's photo

do you have any plans to offer in-house now for companies, which cant host their code on someone's else servers?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We currently are trialling a private cloud offering with a few companies that gives you dedicated hardware and domain name isolation without any of the management burden.

Robert Gerald Porter's photo

Any chance you might have an in-between plan in the works for those who don't mind OSS restrictions (public folder, etc) but would want custom domains or more deploys?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We are constantly iterating on the plans, and will have news along these lines in 2017.

Tierney Cyren's photo

What are your thoughts on Functions as a Service? Lambda seems to be falling a bit behind in terms of their modern-ness - they're still using early 4.x. Do you see Lambda-like services springing up, or will Lambda be where the majority of FaaS for Node.js lives?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

I believe strongly on building on top of open standards. I appreciate the Lambda solution, but the power of Now is in its ability to host everything with almost no new APIs. package.json, Dockerfile and HTTP/2 or WebSocket as an API cover a huge array of usecases for Cloud and IOT.

Lachlan Campbell's photo

How do you all make such awesome products? 😀 But on a more serious note, what's next for now? You've already got support for static sites, Node.js, and Docker, so where is the service expanding to next?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Performance, reliability and scalability. We measure every single detail of the system pretty obsessively, and we have a lot of really big improvements coming. I'm excited about all the features that are coming without breaking the contract at all. Faster and better, with one command all the same.

Bikash Dash's photo

Micro looks amazing !! DId you guys have plan to provide real world examples / tutorials /documentations for it ?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We plan to invest quite a bit on improving the README for micro (Tim Neutkens is leading that project) to feature examples (like Micro + GraphQL), screencasts and more.

Also check out:

ric0's photo

You've made an impressive product, with a breakthrough concept.

While you're building this awesome thing there's a lot of people, though enthusiastic, that are flooding you with new requests, from doable to totally out of zeit's world.

How do you guys cope with that? Do you stay true to your initial idea or are considering disrupting part of the roadmap?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

This is definitely one of the most important battles to fight. Saying "no" is difficult yet absolutely critical. It can even result in anxiety in the short term because you think you might be missing out.

My coping mechanism is to remind myself of the very fundamental underlying challenges and opportunities that very few companies, if any, have been able to optimally solve, even with the existing subset of functionality.

There's a whole universe to be explored within these constraints.

Miguel Mendoza's photo

What is the "internal joke" about tag?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

I forget 🙈

Dmitry Utkin's photo

What are your thoughts on Elm and PureScript?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

I spend a lot of time thinking about purity and powerful type systems. Tony and I were recently chatting about how his experience with Haskell, for example, has made him a better JavaScript programmer.

The neat thing about learning those systems is that they have a lot of transferrable wisdom and ideas. Sure, sometimes those ideas don't transfer directly as boundaries within the code, but they can exist within your head as you architect your software.

So, while we haven't really used Elm and PureScript directly (yet!), I'm very grateful for having been exposed to them and their associated ideas.

Tierney Cyren's photo

Do you have any plans to bring Now, as a platform, (NaaP?) to a larger business audience - i.e. large companies and Enterprises?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Absolutely. We already have two very large organizations set up in this way, and look forward to elaborating on their use-cases in 2017.

Juan Campa's photo

Could you explain a little (or preferably, in detail) how Now works under the hood? Are you using Amazon ECS? Lambda? Custom solution? Where is the user code ultimately running and how do you scale it?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Everything is custom. Most of the solutions out there are rigid or static, and our cloud is very dynamic in nature. You can probably tell from how quickly we boot-up our deployments that those services don't really fit the bill.

Jaga Santagostino's photo

Is there any plan to support account switching for now-desktop? i personally like to separate projects for clients and personal projects with different accounts/subscriptions, but the switch process is kind of cumbersome now

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Absolutely.

Tierney Cyren's photo

What are your plans for Zeit moving into the future? 🕵️

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Our plan boils down to:

  • Continuing to improve upon the existing base. Make everything even faster, more stable and scalable.
  • Listening to our customers and addressing their requirements
Nick Redmark's photo

Do you deliberately practice your skills? If yes which ones and how?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

I spend a lot of time reading and trying new things. I try to learn as much as possible about emerging technologies and paradigms, like Bitcoin. I try to take nothing for granted and embrace the dynamism of it all.

Vladimir Starkov's photo

Thanks for all amazing OSS projects, you are releasing.

question is: do you have any plan to improve database aspect of now?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

As responded elsewhere, we are planning on making the connection to cloud db services extremely smooth. A lot of the pain of using cloud services has to do with managing environments and secrets, and we'll tackle that problem very soon.

Fez Vrasta's photo

will you do something to increase the file size limit of the static assets(fonts, images) in Now.sh?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

Yes. We are introducing more plan with a variety of features and relaxed limitations later in the year.

Miguel Mendoza's photo

You are creating amazing products !

  • If the now containers is spread around the world and I want to work with AWS RDS or another DBaaS, what is the correct region I should choose to have the lowest latency? why?
Guillermo Rauch's photo

We are looking forward to introducing region affinity flags in now.json for scenarios where you have to carefully control latency, or cases where the database itself is not globally replicated.

Sebastian's photo

Is there a way to get the /_src feature from now for serve?

Naoyuki Kanezawa's photo

No unfortunately, but it seems a nice to support.

Matt Mankins's photo

Have you thought about a free tier (non-OSS) that lets developers of small projects use the system for awhile while developing? Perhaps you could disable the CDN features, only have one data center, ... disable some other things that aren't required in development/testing but are required for production?

As others have said I'm impressed by what you've done and want to do more, but I can't convince myself that I need to spend another $15/month until it's in production. And then when it's in production $15/month seems too cheap!

Guillermo Rauch's photo

We treat your development state as seriously as your staging state as seriously as your production state. The main deciding factor in pricing will be how much of our resources you take up, and you'll be charged accordingly.

Sergio Daniel Xalambrí's photo

What do you think it's the future of now-desktop? Do you plan having a some UI to allow handle multiple deploys, with their aliases?

Guillermo Rauch's photo

This is a great question. Now Desktop has a very big surprise coming. It's actually quite fundamental to our strategy and our future!

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