Jason Knight

The less code you use, the less there is to break

Sep 26, 2017

First off I'm laughing at the responses who don't seem to know what functional programming is... or what languages restrict you to it. MOST languages now are at minimum hybrid, allowing for and using both.

JavaScript for example is NOT 'strictly' a functional language. EVERY variable type is an object with methods and properties. FUNCTIONS are in fact objects in JavaScript even when you're trying to use it as a functional/procedural language, meaning that JAVASCRIPT IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL LANGUAGE! No matter how much you may try to use it as such...

There are few if any truly "functional/procedural only" web languages and this is by design as the DOM (document object model) is an integral part of how HTML works and how you use it client-side. Server-side development therefore tends to follow this mode of thought as well.

Like you CAN use PHP as a functional/procedural language only, but you get into mysqli or PDO it's time to put on the big boy pants and use objects. Whilst sure, mysqli does have procedural wrappers for the object based functionality, those are exactly that -- WRAPPERS -- introducing uneccessary overhead and existing as little more than a crutch for the people migrating from mysql_ functions that cannot extract their head from ten years ago's rectum.

It is to that end that questing for a suitable "functional language" for web programming is a flawed concept, and whilst certainly possible (hell you could use vanilla C or Pascal if you wanted) it is NOT something I would recommend.

Man up and learn to use objects! Just don't go overboard and use them for EVERYTHING -- that's where IMHO a lot of languages (Java for example) go bits up face-down as they try to shoe-horn everything into that model, and the result is often less than desirable.

Functions/procedures handle static tasks extremely well, particularly in places where you can pass by reference or handle multiple data types off one call. Objects shine for restricting scope whilst retaining values, creating pointered lists, and a host of other specific uses.

Each has their place, and that's why so far as I'm concerned the better languages allow for BOTH! Restricting yourself to one or the other is a pointless restriction.

Gerald Fishel

Oct 13, 2017

Ironically it seems to me that you are the one that doesn't understand what functional programming is since you keep saying "functional/procedural" as if they were similar things instead of 2 completely different paradigms. Also acting like functions being objects in JavaScript makes it a non-functional language when in fact that is the very reason that it is good for functional programming.

While it is true that there are very few languages that are "strictly" functional, functional programming does not mean "programming without objects".

Gerald Fishel Whilst I think you are lacking in comprehension -- since what I'm saying is that most languages can be used EITHER way; so asking for one way or the other on the choice of LANGUAGE is pretty much meaningless at this point.

... as is the idea of restricting yourself to one model or the other. Use the tool that's best for the job, instead of shoehorning EVERYTHING one way or the other.

As to function/procedure -- one returns a value, the other does not. Apart from that, it's still a "push data on the stack, 'call', and hope where you call has a 'ret' at the end.

Or is that too simple and old school for people using marketspeak buzzwords like "paradigm". There's a reason in this day and age in IT departments "bull*** bingo" is so popular. What's next, are we going to talk about maximizing internal generation through proactive extension of short term planning, in an attempt to sample user reaction whilst minimizing long term investment?

Not sure what happened to my last post. Not going to re-type it all but will re-post the key points.

1) functional programming is more than just writing code with functions instead of objects.

2) language absolutely does matter. If a language does not support optimized tail-recursion then certain functional processes simply cannot be done, because most languages DO handle all function calls by pushing things to the stack like you say, but functional-friendly languages don't when tail recursion is used, so that deep recursion can happen without blowing up the stack. Support for first-class functions, immutability and lambdas is also very important though the latter is not strictly necessary.

3) "paradigm" is a word that means something that we have been using for at least 30 years. If you think it's a "buzzword" then you clearly lack any deep experience.

4) you are the only person I have seen here say anything about "strict" functional languages.

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