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I suspect the same reason people will use react.js -- they don't know enough about HTML, CSS, or JavaScript to be using any of them in the first place.
As evidenced by the API reference website pages for it -- or as it's known with ScriptSafe running "A big blank white empty page". _Graceful degradation, what's that?!? _First time I came across that whilst researching a fix for a client I damned near plotzed.
Since anyone who would build webpages for a simple API reference with nothing in the BODY markup but one empty DIV and some SCRIPT tags PROBABLY doesn't know when to keep it in their pants on when and when not to use JavaScript.
Admittedly, if you were using it for full stack JS crapplet development, then MAYBE it MIGHT serve a purpose... but really if you need something like that you're PROBABLY doing something wrong.
Like not knowing enough about HTML or CSS to even be LOOKING at JavaScript yet.
That's why you should always render the first request on server so that the user gets something before the framework bootstraps itself on client and take forward next interactions with the application.
Atul Sharma Or you could just bother using HTML properly in the first place...
PERISH THE THOUGHT!!!
Some people don't have the time to write all that front end code in the first place. I know Javascript very well but don't really care about HTML/CSS. I care about getting my product out on time not about being the most bare metal developer.
But then again you don't see many tutorials online teaching new developers how to build large enterprise websites with just JS/HTML/CSS.
…and that’s a problem for every language. You see less and less tutorials for anything that doesn’t use a framework. Heck, that even goes for CSS.
Developers should not learn any frameworks before knowing the actual language at least on a medium level.
Marcus wrote:
Some people don't have the time to write all that front end code in the first place.
... and how in blazes is Ember making you write LESS code?!? It's MORE code that RELIES on more code if you know the first damned thing about HTML!
I know Javascript very well but don't really care about HTML/CSS.
Then to be BRUTALLY frank you are UNQUALIFIED to even be using JavaScript yet whatsoever, as you don't know WHEN to script, when not to script, what's HTML's job and not JavaScripts, what's CSS' job and not JavaScript -- WORSE it means you give a flying **** about accessibility and usability, and are in fact flipping the bird at large swaths of users on that front!
.. and what in blazes "large enterprise websites" has to do with anything unless you've been DELUDED into thinking scripttardery is all you can use, well, that's beyond me. "large enterprise websites" - like those for healthcare organizations, government, public access to banking, and so forth are often required by law or at the very least by contract to meet WCAG 2.0 minimums -- something garbage crapped together with type of "JS for nothing and your scripts for free" doesn't even come CLOSE to meeting. I've never seen it done! (since you pretty much throw graceful degradation and progressive enhancement out the damned window!)
That ain't workin', that's not how you do it.
The ONLY way you might THINK it is letting you write less code is if you don't know how to leverage semantics and selectors properly, and are doing the half-assed "let's throw classes at everything" using mouth-breathing halfwit methodology like BEM or OOCSS, where you're vomiting up two to ten times the markup needed. Honestly, how in the blazes people end up "knowing JavaScript very well" before they have a command of HTML baffles me no end. I can only figure that they simply do not grasp what websites are for, who they are for, why HTML even exists, and dove right straight for the "ooh shiny and flashy" with zero regard for the needs of people visiting the steaming piles of manure they vomit up with inaccessible bloated slow loading scripttardery.
Exactly the type of bull I end up repeatedly pulled out of retirement to clean up because somebody used something like Ember on the types of websites I mention, resulting in clients landing in court for failing to meet WCAG 2.0 minimums and/or other federal, state, or civil requirements such as the US ADA, UK EQA, etc, etc...
Jason Knight Im not sure what made you so hateful or what has you as so much of a purist. The fact of the matter is some people don't have to fallow any federal, state, or civil requirements for their websites.
I use frameworks for them all because I don't have time to be a purist. JS, HTML, and CSS are all very simple languages, I don't see how its hard to know them all but I don't just work with those, I work with Python, Elixir, ML, DevOps, Docker, AWS, Rust, and Mongodb. HTML is dirt simple. I will admit I know less CSS than I should but I get away with it because I know frameworks.
People should not be berated because they are not purist programmers. This is a friendly environment for developers.
People should not be berated because they are not purist programmers
Correct, but they should be berated when they've made more work for themselves, made it HARDER for other people to work with it, written two to ten times the code needed to do the huffing job, and flipped the double bird at visitors to the resultant sites!
Which is what ALL of those mind-numbingly idiotic half-assed dipshit frameworks DO!!!
... ANYONE saying that they made it "easier" or "less work" or any of the other LAME EXCUSES thrown out there and parroted by halfwits simply doesn't know enough about HTML or CSS to be opening their bloody yap on the topic. These idiotic bullshit systems claiming to be "easier" or "less effort" or "more productive" just dupe people into never learning enough to know what's ACTUALLY easier.
Much less useful.
But sure, let's just keep on telling visitors to websites to bend over and squeal like a pig without so much as the common courtesy of a reach-around or tube of lube!
It is with disgust to the point of nausea that I see nubes and alleged "experts" alike DUPED into using these bloated train wreck laundry lists of how NOT to write a website, and magically think that -- AGAIN -- writing two to ten times the code needed is "easier". Not one single claim about frameworks -- ESPECIALLY in terms of HTML, CSS, or JavaScript -- stands up under the light of scrutiny by people who grasped the point of 4 Strict, bothered learning semantics, or has even a modicum of clue why HTML and CSS are separate in the first damned place. It is ignorant nube-predating scam artist bullshit.
... and the only way it can not upset you is if you've been bullshit by it and still buy into it no matter how mind-numbingly stupid it all is! I've NEVER seen anything built with this type of nonsense that wasn't ignorant incompetently developed trash that likely took five to ten times the effort to build, and didn't prevent the person building it from learning even the most rudimentary basics of the underlying languages!
Oh, and as to "hateful" -- I'm a New Englander. Go back to Starbucks if you want to sing kumbaya around the drum circle. I thought we were talking business not playing pattycake!
There are times I really feel like the last of a dying breed -- people who give a s***!
If your type is a breed then yes hate is a breed of developer I hope to not see much more of. There are much better ways to argue a point than this. Sources, examples, comparison code. Teach what you know and share your knowledge. Don't belittle others for not being around as long as you.