The recent storm at Uber was rather shocking. Even GitHub suffered from something similar recently. How do we solve the problem of sexism in our industry?
I'm glad you asked this question because it's something that has been on my mind, and that I've discussed with several people since the Uber news came out. So, here we go.
The problem is not sexism, but that the human mind tends to focus on the wrong problem to solve. The real problem is simply, "morally bad people." Think about that for a second... Now, think about it some more..... And a little bit more! I use the term "morally bad" because these people may be highly skilled, as it sounds like may have been the case with this woman's original boss at the Uber company, hence HR was so hesitant to remove him. Or perhaps his dad was a C-level executive, who knows.
Bad people use anything they can against others. It's extremely easy to get distracted by the "implementation details" (sexism, racism, prejudice, rude and mean gestures, trash talking behind ones back, asking you to stay and work fri night so they can go out with another co-worker, etc...) but the big picture matters more. I'm not even a woman but I guarantee you that the same people at that company would find some way to do something wrong to me... Unless I had connections with them and they liked me, but that would be a volatile situation and as soon as they didn't like me any more, the games would start.
How do I know this? I have personal experience with it. I've observed one particular previous supervisor who would play these types of games all the time. First, he didn't like me, so he did that with me, then he began to like me, and the same behaviors that he allowed me to do, he would reprimand others for (reading a book at work, using my cell phone, listening to music, etc...). When I got on his "good side", he would allow these things and write other people up/fire them for doing these same things!
However, he is not "anti-book," "anti-cell phone" or "discriminating against musicians," he's just a jerk with lousy moral upbringing, to be honest.
So the question may be raised "Why is it important to focus on the big picture... On not hiring jerks... Or more importantly, firing these types of people? (and I say firing because let's be real, it's impossible to know in a day or two interview who these people are)"
Because this allows us to address the root of the problem - evil people, bad morals, no ethics, etc...
One thing I've noticed in my life experience and as a counselor to others, is that bad people tend to be bad. When I think they are singling me out, they may appear to be, but when more time passes, I realize they also treat their wife like dirt, their kids like crap, or other co-workers. These are people who have deep problems, and frankly, they need to work them out on their own time.
You may think I'm digging too deep here, but this is reality and trying to simplify this kind of stuff to "omg ppl so sexist" frankly is the reason why these things continue to happen. Everyone says they don't want gang members in the neighborhood, but nobody fixes the social problems that are putting them there. What do we do when we want to solve a programming problem? We break it down into small units of work - i.e. we divide and conquer, we reduce requirements/constraints until we can solve the problem and then we get bigger... The same thing needs to be applied here... I guarantee you Uber doesn't go out and say "let's get some sexist managers up in here!" No company ever does - but what they fail to do is police their people... It becomes some kind of brotherhood (or sisterhood in some cases - let's not rule that out either), and if you aren't in the "in crowd" with the right people, evil things get repeatedly and routinely overlooked. This actually has little to do with sexism at all and it can happen with anything. If it wasn't about sexism in this case, perhaps they would play games on the most emotionally weak guy in the bunch, the one who is least social, the one who doesn't work out, the newest person, etc... The possibilities are endless... But the cause is very finite. This happens because the people themselves are assholes (or in a more PC way, they have moral compass and ethical problems).
So, how do we solve these types of problems? Better policing and polling within organizations - HR needs to make anonymous surveys and follow-up with them on a routine basis, and they also need to have contacts in every department who is trained to report certain behaviors where people are not being treated well on a repeated basis... This can be socially tricky but it _can _be implemented properly. People often say "Well, HR is only out to protect the company." This is _absolutely true._ But guess what? Happy workers who love what they do and don't get treated poorly is protecting the company!
Company's have to realize that if somebody is doing a "great job" but is being an asshole to others, yes, that means they need to take action. Unfortunately, they often don't.
Now, I want to go back to the main point of this article real fast one last time - the implementation details and how much damage the focus on them does... For some reason, it is easier as humans for us to focus on implementation of evil rather than the evil itself. This implementation comes in many shapes and forms as aforementioned - racism, hate, sexism, jealousy, "having a short fuse", sexual abuse, verbal abuse, straight-up rudeness, injustice (falsely accusing someone of something and they lose their job or don't get a promotion), etc..
But what's the underlying problem there? Nice, respectable people who had a level-head and are not evil don't do any of those things! Sure, they may have a bad day and slip something out of the mouth once or twice every so often, but there's a whole difference between that and doing what people at Uber (allegedly) did. Sexism is a conclusion and a manifestation of a deeper problem from within someone... Yet we for some reason love to constantly blame it for everything... Same with racism - and this one I do have personal experience with as I am a person of color who has been surrounded primarily by caucasians and been able to see how people reason about race. We try to blame the manifested/developed problems rather than the root. And what happens is we get no where. How can Uber fix this problem when in their mind, they aren't purposely hiring sexist people??? Another reason why this is bad is because let's say a company fixes their sexist problem.... Now they have racist people... Then they fix that, now they have jerks who overwork their employees without paying them properly.... Finally, they fix all that, and now they have a bunch of lousy workers who don't get work done, Etc... That's not good.
So it's important to focus on the right problems in these situations, and the universal one that most people don't seem to want to take responsibility for is not just hiring but maintaining an unforced, positive work environment. This does not mean pamper the wimps and whiners who just do a bad job, but this means that if someone is there to work hard and learn, they deserve as much respect as the CEO... And this is regardless of race, gender, religion, social status, or sexual orientation. Thanks for reading.
Hi from France (and apologies for my english).
As a girl in tech, I see two different issues here :
1/ There's not enough women in tech
2/ There is sexism in tech (as there is everywhere, in fact)
I'm not quite sure how to solve those : if it was that easy I hope it would have been fixed before, right?
In my opinion, focusing on "sexism in tech" is focusing on the wrong issue. The tech industry is not more or less sexist than anything else. I face sexism everywhere (at the bank, when I try to rent an apartment, on the internet, at the hospital and even in boulangeries). I feel proud to work in an industry where some (and not a few) men try to address those issues, and it seems important to me to stand against assertions that often lead to the use of old stereotypes about "nerdy tech guys that can't handle women" to explain a phenomenon that is absolutely not limited to the tech industry.
That said, I think that the awful situation Susan Fowler had to endure is more linked to a very bad company culture (I started hearing things like this about Uber many years ago, and not only about tech jobs), and the fact that there is so few women in tech that it is very hard to get the consideration we deserve, and to stand for our rights. Let alone that it's always very difficult to step up against sexual predators because of the shame that is still associated with women's sexuality.
If there had been half of women in her team, maybe her chances for some of them to stand with her against her manager's behavior would have been greater. And maybe Uber would have stand with her too in fear of loosing a bunch of good employees (all of this is of course purely conditional).
I really think that women experience sexism in every industry, and that the only difference here is that when they are enough to feel as powerful as their colleagues, or the administration, they can fight back.
So I can't agree more with Justin Pullen , there is not enough women in tech. That's the main issue to me.
How to get more women in tech? I think it's an educational system issue.
I graduated not so long ago, and it may be different outside of France, but I was fed with old stereotypes since my childhood. You'd think that with a mother gifted for math, who holds more degrees than all of the teachers I ever had, I'd never assimilate those stereotypes? WRONG. I spent 8 to 12 hours a day at school. I spent more time with teachers than with my mom. I may have been unlucky, but I had many sexists teachers in Math and Sciences, and no one in school administrations seemed to see any trouble here.
In 10th grade I had a teacher that, between other things, seemed very proud that only boys would join the math group he animated, all the girls in my class dropped maths that year.
In my freshman year, one of my programming teacher was convinced girls where unable to code. Joke's on him, I had the best grades of my year group in his classes. I stood up to him because we were many girls here and we all wanted to learn (it was the equivalent of an american Associate Degree, full of girls trying to study sciences, while the elitists degrees where full of boys). If I had been alone I'm not sure I would have ever been able to finish a semester with him.
I choose not to even try to apply to engineering schools (we have a weird Grandes Ecoles system in France) because of the sexist climate in them and what my female friends had told me about them, and got a computing arts diploma from an art school instead. There, I was the only girl in my class, and was referred to as the "women quota" by some of my fellow classmates.
Everything in school was made to prevent me from studying tech or sciences. I literally had to work my way out of the logical path to end up in tech, even though I started enjoying it in my childhood and had always wanted to work in engineering. I had many female friends who tried to do the same and few of them ended up in tech, most of them stopped at the first sexist joke from a stupid teacher, surrendered when subjected to harassment. And I get it! Why should they have to put up with this when they can study law or economics calmly? Worst of it, it's so hard to bear, that it always affect your self-esteem, your work, your mental health, your grades.
So here is what I think we should to : I think it's in school that everything starts, and that sexism can, has to be stopped. I firmly believe that it should be punished, with extreme severity. That not a single sexist joke should be allowed, and that some selective sorting should be done among teachers (some are well known for their behavior toward girls). No exception. This should change a thing, but it will take time. It's starting to move in France, I think because the tech industry is loosing it's "weird nerd industry" label and that people are starting to feel pride, and responsibility.
My experience is largely within Indian system. So my comment will be applicable to this system.
Sexism isn't an isolated problem within tech community. Like many habits, it starts at home.
We take our sons to movies, where the hero chases a stranger, teases her, and finally they fall in love. This is almost a repeat in every single movie. At home, we scold our daughters if they laugh out loud, but our sons have a different parameter. They can tease any age female, whether known or stranger. That is not only accepted, in some cases even encouraged. We term it as forthcoming and an extrovert nature.
Then we are surprised, when they demonstrate that same attitude and behavior outside of home - office, society.
These discussions are useless without an action. Are you ready to stop watching movies with sexism is encouraged (same goes for castism or anything else that you care about. Not everyone has to care about everything)? Or encourage equality for gals in your group (family, office).
Show, don't tell. Start with the man in the mirror. Healing of the world starts with you, me, and us. We are the world we make.
You can make the difference. Let me tell you what I've done. I am not saying this to boast. I'm sharing with a hope that one of this will trigger an idea for one of you.
When Reuben Fernandez was stabbed by thugs because he defended girls from eve-teasers (in 2011), I decided I won't watch movies which promote eve-teasing. And I won't take my kids to those movies either. This has meant almost no movies for me and my kids.
While my entire family and everyone I know has cast identity as their last name, I dropped cast name. I was young when I did that (17). My father was livid, but I stayed with that decision. I did that after reading someone in my town shot dead during cast based riot.
My kids carry my wife's name, not mine. I have taught them why. So whenever they are asked about their name, they share about the reason. I hope they grow up to respect women.
Are you bothered about sexism? Then do something within your circle of influence.
My answer to "How do we solve the problem of sexism in tech?"
There will always be "Bad" people in any field as large as Tech. I would not be so quick to inject that all tech has a sexism problem. We cannot deny that there are instances of it (like the ones posted above). However, if you peeled the HR layers back I would bet there are instances of age discrimination, racism and all sorts of nasty violations that have occurred. We are talking about an industry with millions of people. There will be bad seeds. and education, workplace discipline or legal action is the only way to deal those.
I know some will read this as “there is an underrepresentation of females in tech, thus we are a sexist industry” there are three easy steps to follow if you read the question this way.
Step One: Encourage more females to pursue tech as a career.
- This will boost their representation in tech.
Step Two: Encourage more females to pursue tech as a career.
- This will boost their representation in tech.
Step Three: Encourage more females to pursue tech as a career.
- This will boost their representation in tech.
(Yes, I know they are all the same but it is the only way I see it working and allowing the growth to be sustainable. If it is a falsely inflated bubble because we offer some special privilege to one gender it will pop and the market will correct itself back to being called sexists)
Also, I believe labeling Tech as sexist could drive women away. Bad PR can really hurt a lot of people trying to do the right thing. Stay positive and encouraging people to pursue tech and don’t let the instances of bad seeds discourage you.
A part of me wonders if change should start at the education level. Perhaps figuring out how to diversify the educators in order to make more students comfortable with their particular academic community.
I teach a web development course that happens to be 50/50 gender-wise. However I have occasionally been around heavier comp. sci environments that are more male. Those communities can certainly become more cliquish and I do question if that pushes some women away. From that perspective I wonder if that negatively impacts the workforce and industries.
I have a sister in tech! She studied New Media in university and went into school liking photography and 3D, and left school with additional appreciation for web design, interactive installations (cameras + sensors + screens), and a passion for editing videos.
When she graduated she was looking for video editing jobs but found work in web and has been happily doing that ever since.
Over the course of almost a decade and a half in the workforce, having worked at a variety of web companies in the town she lives in, I have finally had the chance to collaborate with her and her company by being an 'overflow contractor' at her workplace a few times.
There are very few things that make a little brother more proud than seeing his big sister being loved, respected, and appreciated by her co-workers and boss. Right now she's doing a lot of project management work, but also handles support, troubleshooting, and quite a few other things every day as well (when needed). They respect her and invest in her by giving her the training and tools she needs to extend her skills.
I have heard stories about women being mistreated in tech (and it breaks my heart when it happens), but I just wanted to share a positive story. A woman in tech (my sister) inspired me to get into tech!
I'm not sure if 'tech' has a problem with sexism though… I do believe you can have bad people in any field, any industry, any company, or even any team. If you want to get rid of sexism where it appears, I think bringing offending employees into discipline and even firing them for unacceptable behaviour is the right way to provide that healthy environment for all your staff. It's unfortunate that tech isn't immune from the same problems every other industry has, but I think the solution for tech is to deal with these problems the way it's dealt with in other industries!
For me as a self-employed contractor/freelancer, doing my part means treating all clients and colleagues with dignity and respect, and looking at what people do more than what people are.
hmm actually I'm watching those waves, again and again and this cannot be solved in our industry .... it can only get better if our culture in total teaches and reflects about such behavior and what to do.
I can go on with different philosophies but every answer that is clear and easy is probably just plain stupid.
Social groups are rather complex, moral is changing slowly and so is our behavior.
Some things that could help:
As I mentioned I think this is a rather complex topic and I am watching the pro gender movement as well as classic counter movements.
Please keep this video in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc
as well as we like to confirm our own biases, self affirming information will be seen as "more true" that's something we have to check on regular basis as well.
those are my thoughts on that topic.
Sexism is bad and you will encounter it in any country and at any company to varying degrees. Since I am a male living in Germany (with permanent job contracts) and working for a very big company, it is difficult for me to feel the problem. Sure, there are colleagues who will try to play strange games against me, but that's not nearly as bad as what happens elsewhere and does not affect professional work, either.
So, if I were Susan Fowler, engineer at Uber, how would I solve the situation she encountered? My reaction would probably have been to try another team, but then quit early, right the moment when HR lie to me and my manager does not seem to be interested in helping me at all. A company is an important environment. We spend many hours at work every single day. If I have to spend so much time of my life in a place where I feel so unimportant that harassment is OK, then it clearly is the wrong place for me. I would leave the company. Because with my academic degrees and experience it is easy to find a new job easily and I would point out quite clearly in job interviews, why I left that company after such a short time.
While that is my point of view, I know that that's not the reaction everyone would have (as is the case with Susan and many other people (not only women)) and I know that it is by no means a solution to the problem, just a way to get rid of its effects on me. However, there is one thing I learned in my short life: Every human is different. There are some good and diligent people, there are some bad people. There are times when the bad people gang up on you. Even if the whole world tells them that it's bad what they are doing, they will not change their view of things. They will rather curse the world and keep doing what they want for as long as they can. Doing campaigns to change them is futile and the only solution would be to bring them into a position where they are forced to behave or cannot harm anyone. Well. Bad people are everywhere, and some of them are in high positions. You cannot "just" get rid of them. So, for now, in our current society, I deem it the best way to steer clear of bad people, even if it means leaving the company I wanted to work for. Every single person is important, and one should be the last to reduce oneself to work in such a bad environment.
By the way, as soon as you found a comfortable environment, you should definitely make sure to do your part and help others - or fight against such situations. When fighting, make sure you fight for or against a specific thing to make a difference!
j
stuff ;)
Marco Alka
Software Engineer, Technical Consultant & Mentor
Todd
Software Security TechLead
BTW - Related medium.com/@amyvertino/my-name-is-not-amy-i-am-an…
Related 2 - cnet.com/news/trump-women-in-stem-tech-laws