Popular posts

There are so many things that are wrong (IMHO of course) with this post. First, let's clear up one thing, most companies (if not all) will not hire someone SOLELY on their minority status. Like you said, it's a business, it needs to make money to survive. And it needs to deliver on its promises of delivering goods/services. No battery company would hire a farmer simply because she's a woman, wouldn't make sense...

"Not on minority, majority, women, disability political correctness crap."

While I take issue with the reference about the term "P.C. crap", I generally agree with this statement. However, this is too ideological for today's society, and would never happen, as there is just too much bias in the world today that would prevent this from ever happening. I take issue with the statement because it dismisses and minimizes people who have been in that position. I know, because I've been in that position many times in my life (I have a physical disability that people make (incorrect) assumptions about every day of my life, and especially on job interviews).

"Don't play hero of equality and inclusiveness."

Why not? Why can't you run a successful business AND have more diversity? Assuming the person has the skills, I see nothing wrong wanting to choose someone who may look/act a little different from you

"That is going to destroy more companies and the talent than anything."

This is just factually incorrect. There have been countless studies done that says the exact opposite, that having a diverse group of people from many backgrounds with many different view points is actually GOOD for a company. I can provide references if needed.

Now this isn't an attack on you, I simply ask that reevaluate this issue. The fact of the matter is that bias and racism and sexism and able-ism and every other -ism out there DO EXIST everywhere today, and the whole concept of "political correctness" is society's way of attempting to deal with it. Do some people take it too far? Absolutely, but in more cases than not, all we're doing is trying to make an even playing field for everyone, and I don't see how that's a bad thing...

1. Companies do hire solely based on gender and minority. I have seen that in my own work place and suffered because some folks use minority and gender card and we get to work their rejection and upper management can't even fire them due to management being afraid of the minority card and lawsuits. Because many countries and government are under burden. There is a reason bad work from top to bottom in many sectors due to this.

2. I am born in minority community myself. However I have got job the hard way for which I even have to leave parents in the minority neighborhood. I know how people in my community making use of the minority card. I don't want to get more deep into this as it'd be more political. Remember, if you pamper minority for being what they are instead of their talent. You're raising a community of self praising victim people who use minority card while making others uncomfortable.

3. Diversity only helps if it has talent in it. Using gender, race, religion and other minority cards won't add value to business. Any business who feeds such insecure communities is preparing a socialist doomsday in their organization.

4. I am not going to debate with stats to be honest. You have to roam around the business which are being affected with this diversity and inclusiveness propaganda over talent. Many companies including mine are being affected and people can't do anything about it.

I don't mind if people attack me based on that post or opinion. This socialist PC propaganda is going to backfire. At the end, talent (regardless of what person is- majority or minority) survives over PC diversity and inclusiveness. That's how nature works.

weird, I never got an email notification for the reply, should I have?

I should have prefaced my post that I was referring to my knowledge and experience in the USA, I don't know much about diversity laws in other countries.

#1 - I think you're seeing the exception, rather than the norm. I've worked with numerous wide ranging companies, and have been part of the hiring process, and never once did I hear anything about "oh we need to hire this person only because they are xxx minority..." And other people I have talked to have more so agreed with me than not.

#2 - You say you're part of a minority group. How would you feel if you applied for a job, and you knew you were overly qualified but still wanted the job. Then someone else with the same skill set as you comes along and applies, and gets it SOLELY they "look or act" more along the lines of everyone else. You worked extra hard to get to that point, did all the right things, killed it in the interview, and did everything 100% right, All you did was be born in to <insert minority group here>, something you had no control over. How is that fair? That happens A LOT more often than an underqualified minority getting a job they don't deserve.

#3, #4 - I'm not going to respond as it'll just lead to a debate that won't change anyones opinion. All I'll say is this, like Luke Skywalker said in The Last Jedi, "everything you just said is incorrect"

I'm not one of those people that'll attack someone just because I disagree. There's enough of that going on in the world, at least in the states. As long as you're respectful, which you have been and I appreciate it, I'll continue having an honest discussion.

Agreed, but in the situation where you have all candidates with the same skill level but different cultures and backgrounds, except for one from the same culture and background as your own. Who do you chose?

Personally, I really enjoy working with people from different cultures, I don't care about race or gender. Having different cultures in the office brings very interesting solutions to the same problem.

To Josh,

1. You're seeing things differently because you are in US not in asia, africa or some parts of EU. I think people from first world countries need to see things context wise instead of expecting lifestyle of said first world to be forced on third world or second world for that matter. Wrong people are being pushed ahead using minority card. Things are lot different in other countries. If you expect people to be given preference, you raise mentally handicap people and they think taking advantage of system is their right. In US, you are yet to see this category of people. We in asia, see this quite often. In reality, what happened to past should not lead to people living in victim complex and expecting others to push their community.

2. I have gone through process of "not getting chance despite being minority because another candidate is woman". I work for a company which has incompetent women who come to office at 9 and leave by 2. (They are neither pregnant, nor mid age or old, they are just entitled after they have got the job). Their rejection in work is being forced on other people who work till 11 pm. Because accountability is dead when you are raising minority with incentive status. When the amount of people who don't do work and got the job because of minority card, you have no idea how much pressure managers and HR go through to keep the company floating and avoiding any lawsuits and conflicts.

3. In response to quote of skywalker, I'd only say "nature does not favor inclusiveness nor equality". It believes in survival of the fittest. In states, you will learn that eventually. We in asia, live with that every day.

To, David

Point is not about working with diverse culture or diverse people. Point is about quota system being forced on society instead of talent (skills). I live in apartment that has people from 3 different countries 4 different religions, color and language. My point is not about not appreciating diversity. Point is about diversity getting preference over talent.

If interviewers see 5 people with same skill set, they choose on the basis of social and decision making skills. I have seen some interviewers specifically designing such tests (for those who are in server and hosting business), decision making skills in some roles in such business is very important. In such place if you force the company to hire women or minority just for the sake of it. You're making wrong decisions for your company. I'd hire woman with better decision making skill over men who are from minority. Or I'd hire capable minority men or women over those who lack skills. All that is needed is right person for right job. Not nepotism on the basis of minority card. That's socialist meltdown waiting to happen.

"Hiring should be always on the skill basis." then the future is ill planned for, as software development isn't a job like "use X crane" but one of thinking and problem solving. If a company hires for skills only they've short sold themselves and their future hiring will go down the drain. A company has to act strategically and not with such a myopic focus.

"Not on minority, majority, women, disability political correctness crap." One doesn't have to set quotas or the like to make this happen, they just have to get rid of their misguided viewpoints, understand their actual pool of hiring, and realize who actually is and isn't a good hire. The data is there, people have to pull their bigoted viewpoints out of their proverbial ass and realign with some actual reality. There's dramatically more opportunity and profit to be made when a company realizes this and lifts its employees up in the process of profiting.

"Get things done. Business should be about profit, not charity." Exactly, which is why having a skills only based viewpoint is short selling one's company, and very likely (as so many startups can prove out) setting up a company for failure.

"Don't play hero of equality and inclusiveness. That is going to destroy more companies and the talent than anything." The data on companies and hiring already show this to be false.

Adron, based on the tone of your reply. I won't bother replying. Thanks for replying.

#1 - This isn't a first-world vs 2nd/3rd-world issue, this is a human issue., and to be honest, it appears as if you don't fully understand the issue. This isn't "let's go hire some minority totally unqualified for our job", that would be totally crazy. It's about giving minorities with a skill set an equal opportunity to get the job, despite people's natural tendencies to be biased against them.

"If you expect people to be given preference, you raise mentally handicap people and they think taking advantage of system is their right."

No, this is not true. People expect to be treated FAIRLY and EQUALLY, not just be given a preference. Anyone who does is the exception and not the norm.

#2 - Sounds like you're working for a shitty company. Not sure how that's the "minority"'s fault. If that's how upper management runs the company, that's on them.

#3 - Actually, the most successful organisms in nature are the ones that work together. So no, nature DOES IN FACT favor inclusiveness and equality. Also, get off your high horse and don't tell me what i'll learn or not learn about surviving. I don't make assumptions on what you go through every day in life, please return the favor.

1. This is first world and second and third world issue. You have to step out of your comfort zone before making assumption about the world and forcing people to accept first world views on third world living scenarios. Because below assumption of yours surely shows the utopia of some sort.

"People expect to be treated FAIRLY and EQUALLY, not just be given a preference. "

Step out of your first world to see world isn't black and white like this.

1. Not shitty company. That's how minorities in this part of the world are taking advantage. There are some doctors who are born in minority community who have given wrong medication and killed some people. If practice on regular basis such as that's not on minority then I am not sure whose fault is that.

2. Most of the successful organism are predators not organisms that live with their prey. It's like saying bacteria that live on dead body would give their natural habit of eating it for inclusiveness and equality. So get off your cooked up theories of equality and inclusiveness. Reality works lot different than what you are living in some comfort zone of kumbaya.

Thank you.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, as I believe this is a HUMAN issue. Ask anybody what one of the few core values they expect from living within a society, and the majority will say they want the right to be happy and the right to be respected and treated fairly, equally. Unfortunately, humans are too dumb and egocentric to make that a reality.

I didnt mean "shitty company" in the sense it's a bad place to work, I wasn't trying to insult you. I should have said that if you're company hires ONLY on diversity, then that's a shitty practice. Still, be mad at management for that, not the people they hire.

As for your second point, it's not worth even arguing over. You're essentially saying that humans aren't predators because they live with one another....huh what? makes no sense to me, but then again, my "cooked up" theories are only based on facts after all......

Yes. Let's agree to disagree then.