Comment by Jason Knight on "Which one between React and Angular is easier to learn for a person who knows only basics of JavaScript and ES6?"

Do yourself (and the world) a favor, and learn MORE than just the basics of JavaScript / ECMAScript BEFORE you dive for code bloat nonsense like those frameworks. MORE SO bother learning proper semantic HTML and how to separate presentation from contnet -- and the basics of accessibility BEFORE you go pissing on websites with any of that garbage.

You do that, well, you'll recognize just how badly those tools are a giant middle finger to users, a double-bird to "ease" of site construction and maintenance, and in general thrive on the ignorance of people who blindly believe all the wild unfounded claims about them!

Really on any project if you think you "need" either of them, you don't know enough about HTML, CSS, or JavaScript to be working with web technologies. LAUGHABLY in most cases, it's a complete ignorance of HTML and how to leverage CSS selectors that's at fault.

Jason Knight

What path do you recommend for learning JavaScript the right way?
Once I master JavaScript the right way, do you recommend me to use Vanilla JavaScript instead of using any of the frameworks/libraries like React/Vue/Angular?

Indu Pillai Jason Knight

I to would like to see a good example of a large Data driven website using just Vanilla JS/HTML/CSS. Possibly create a course on Udemy or a blog post of some kind on Medium.

Indu Pillai Marcus

You can start with medium.com/bunnyllc/vanilla-js-components-8d20c58…

About the path of mastering JS - hashnode.com/post/what-sites-do-you-use-to-learn-…

At the end you master every skill only by practicing it. You ALWAYS start any task by developing it from the lowest level and add complexity, libraries, frameworks only when it is really becomes necessary. Later you will understand that there is no that necessity because your browser has enough tools for you, just write vanilla ES6 again and again and keep learning new web standards and official APIs.

E.g. instead of googling "How to send ajax using <another framework of the day>" you ask yourself "I need to send this form via ajax, WHY do I need, do I REALLY need it and only when you've answered these questions you ask yourself - how can I do that?", then you will find your best JavaScript framework which is JavaScript itself and will be amazed "Ow, there is fetch() API", "Wow, there is also FormData API, I am done".

Indu Pillai The first step I would suggest is to learn when NOT to use JavaScript at all... since if you care at ALL about usability and accessibility your first step should be to build a website that gracefully degrades, and an essential step of graceful degradation is that a site at least be able to deliver it's content scripting off. Losing some flashy bits like comments or whatnot is one thing, but if the core functionality is broken without scripting, you didn't do your job. This is why client-side rendering is more often than not incompetent nonsense when it's used as the ONLY content delivery method.

GOOD scripting should enhance the functionality of an already working page. For example if you had a proper form for submitting a response that already worked, you could then hook it with scripting to AJAX and insert instead of the POST/GET method, BUT LEAVE THE FALLBACK IN PLACE.

There's also just so much stuff people blindly dive for the JavaScript for when there's no good reason. See using JavaScript for dropdown menus when we've not needed JS for that since IE6, and even then that was better handled by using a .htc jScript polyfill than resorting to "JS for everything". Nowadays a poster child for "JS for nothing" is the mobile hamburger menu, something that know-nothings behind garbage like bootcrap will use a BUTTON tag, and assload of DIV and SPAN, and some scripting to handle, when a INPUT type="checkbox" and an empty LABEL can do the job with CSS handling the heavy lifting!

The laugh is you say add a checkbox input the people defending the scripttard approach will go "but that leaves a stray checkbox scripting/css off" -- 1) as if that's any different from their stupid BUTTON tag and 2) usually from the people who say don't worry about people without JavaScript... It's like "You can't have it both ways ***holes!"

But that's treading into where people just start making up lame excuses to justify ignorance, incompetence, or just plain stupidity. See the three high paid executives (CEO, CTO, Marketing Director) I just got fired from a large banking group I was freelancing for as I went from "guy being brought in to supervise fixing things" to "witness for the prosecution". I got them clear of the court cases, everything was kosher, and NOT EVEN TWO DAYS after I was done, they went in and screwed it over on every accessibility count that had them in the courts in the first damned place -- so now they're facing DOUBLE fines. The LAME EXCUSES about "oh don't worry about JavaScript off" or "users of whatever are only 3%" and so forth came spewing forth which is why the courts in three countries are not giving them any grace period to come up to WCAG 2 minimums. They went from "oops we didn't know" to "willfully disobeying a court order".

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